As I mentioned, my post on the Toyota problem had attracted the attention of a dissident, who was quite strident in his support of Toyota. I had hoped that he would bring some real evidence to the table, but alas, what little evidence he had was delivered among profanity and insults. I’ve had to remove a few of his posts to keep the tone civil, but have otherwise let him be.
But yesterday, the dissident (one George Jones, apparently from Canada) took a step too far, and impersonated the author of a critical petition, claiming her work was all a fake.
The comments are still there; I have no intention of removing the evidence of this person’s vileness. But I did contact the target of the fraud, Charlene Blake, who was happy to pass on information regarding the petition and the extraordinary harassment campaign she’s endured.
Jeff, I went briefly to check this George Jones….can’t post now….BUT……he is LYING! I have NEVER added one name to the petition, nor have I signed the petition more than ONCE….the first one! You have someone committing libel on your site!
Also, some more interesting information: the petition signatures Jones asserts were fake turned out to be, in fact, fake. But not in the way you might expect:
My petition has had many (see all the “deleted” lines) attacks from the SAME individuals who job it is to STOP me. They have not succeeded, however.
Get that? They tried to fill the petition with bogus signatures, and then cite the very deletions as evidence that the petition is bogus. Here’s an example of one such deleted “signature” she forwarded to me:
MORE PHONY NAMES!! COMPLETE FAKERY HERE!!!! GUESS WHAT? CHARLENE BLAKE HAS RETURNED FROM THE TRIP TO FLORIDA AND HAS STARTED POSTING PHONY NAMES AGAIN. NOTHING WAS HEARD OVER THE HOLIDAY UNTIL YESTERDAY, AND NOW THE CHARADE STARTS UP AGAIN. AFTER NO ACTIVITY FOR ONE ENTIRE WEEK, NAMES START APPEARING TWO AT A TIME. WHO DO YOU THINK WE ARE CHARLENE BLAKE—YOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL STUDENTS???
This appears to be one battle in a long war against Ms. Blake, in several car forums.
Now, I have nothing against Toyota. As I mentioned before, as long as you know what you’re getting into, Toyota vehicles can be a great choice. No one’s perfect, and Toyota certainly has done better in this regard than some. (I note, with glee, that Ms. Blake cut her teeth on Chrysler before taking on Toyota; if only she could have helped me with my trouble-mobile!) I don’t necessarily endorse everything Charlene Blake has ever done, or claim that Toyota is never the victim of deception perpetrated by dishonest customers.
But harassment as a response? That’s dirty pool. And when my own blog is used as a conduit of some of that harassment, I get downright angry. Maybe Ms. Blake is the one at fault on all those other car boards and petitions, but I know what happened here, and I know who I’m inclined to believe based on both personal experience and past performance.
And what’s worse, these people are meddling in affairs that are none of their business to try and prevent others from getting restitution from harm done to them. If these owners are trying to defraud Toyota, do we really think poor, hapless Toyota is doomed without net.trolls to come to their rescue? Certainly not! And what if the net.trolls are wrong, and they are helping a company defraud innocent private citizens who lost good money over lemons? It would almost be better to learn that the trolls are paid company shills–motivated by mere greed–than to consider that these people did it for the sheer depraved, sadistic pleasure of hurting people.
For this post only, I’m modifying the comment policy. Anyone–anyone at all–posting here with even the slightest hint of slander against me, Ms. Blake, or anyone else will find their comment text deleted and their identity exposed to the best of my ability. Don’t like it? Post on your own blog, with whatever comment policy you can stomach. This is what happens when people use my site to perpetrate vileness. And further comments will be disabled on the original post.
UPDATE (2005-10-10): Well, that was fun. I suppose I’ve underestimated the tenacity of the “Charlene-Blake-Is-The-Devil” cult. Playtime’s over, kids; time to stalk Ms. Blake somewhere else.
Deleted for slander of Ms. Blake and myself.
Double-post; basically same content as previous.
Quantumleap, you might re-read the last paragraph of my blog post. For the record, calling Ms. Blake “psychotic” and “one of the biggest liars on the Net” qualifies, not to mention the “stupid” quip.
Now, if Ms. Blake is such a liar, the evidence must be overwhelming. Could you point some of it out? That’s all I’ve been asking for, in this post and the previous one.
All it takes to recognize Ms. Blake’s tendency to prevaricate is to read many of the thousands of posts authored by her on the net.
All the proof you need is there.
Have you ever read any of her nonsense?
If so, You must have immediately note that she rarely, if ever, posts factual information.It is a concoction of half truths, misrepresentations, unfounded conclusions, and in some cases, outright lies.
Most, if not all, of her work can be best categorized as alarmist hyperbole, loads of innuendo, lots of inference, and it basically reads much like tabloid style editorials.
On occasions when she was asked by others to substantiate statements made, she never answered directly, and usually launched into a long winded tirade with more of the same rhetoric as characterized by most of her work.
It is also a fact that most the (very few) media reports of sludge were prompted by e-mails to the media source by Ms. Blake herself. Media personnel have stated this on a number of occasions.
She gave them the same self styled hyperbole she uses herself, and they just ran with it.
Needless to say, there were never any follow up media reports because there was essentially nothing to report.
One more thing.
Your site seems to be equipped with spyware capability. Can you confirm?
So I have you on record as claiming “outright lies” by Ms. Blake. You even mentioned specific situations and specific quotes from unbiased sources. Why, then, do I see no links? No evidence? After asking for it repeatedly? Do you expect me to just take you at your word? Why should I not take Ms. Blake at her word when she says that she has not lied? How are you or Mr. Jones any more trustworthy than Ms. Blake?
(And, actually, Ms. Blake has sent evidence as well, which is better than any of you have done.)
As for “spyware capability”, I don’t have any idea what you mean by that. Certainly I do not attempt to hack users’ boxes to install rogue software on their systems, which would be the common definition. If you meant something else, or had some other concern, then please elaborate.
Obviously, you aren’t the least bit interested in learning or seeking truth.
Your objective is simply to stir the pot.
I was right the fisrst time i posted.
That’s most likely why you deleted it.
What a sensless waste of time!
Have a good life.
As I read the posts by “Quantumleap,” I couldn’t help but think of the chronology of this whole Toyota sludge saga. First, in late 2000, I find that many others have posted about engine oil sludge. I wasn’t even looking for these posts…..I was looking for posts about STEERING PROBLEMS and BRAKE PROBLEMS in the Toyota Sienna. What I found was incredible……other Toyota owners being railroaded out of cyberspace just because they spoke the truth about engine sludge in a late model Toyota! I was fascinated and at the same time horrified by this…..because I owned one of the sludgemobiles! Of course, I didn’t take anything at face value….I did my own research to find the truth.
The truth is that the Toyota sludge matter came up well before 1999. Mr. Steve Weiss pleaded with others online….on several different sites. The “regulars” at Edmund’s Town Hall said it was all one big hoax. When I posted an owner survey at Edmund’s, I was immediately attacked by one “Pilot 13” who said I was spreading some kind of hoax. This hoax claim along with further defamatory and condescending commentary directed at me continued right up until Toyota itself announced the “SPA—Special Policy Adjustment” and just one month later the “CSP–Customer Support Program for Engine Oil Gelation.” While all the hoax claims (by a number of impersonators) continued, I continued gathering owner proof of a major engine problem in many Toyota models.
I didn’t even start my current online petition until one year after these special programs came out. Nonetheless, there are over 1,000 signatures now. I’ve called many of the affected Toyota owners and learned even more about this widespread and costly problem. The number of “in the dark” original Toyota owners is staggering considering that Toyota PROMISED to mail out 3.3 million letters to its affected vehicle owners. I personally know many such owners who haven’t heard a word from Toyota! Supposedly, Toyota took over a year to mail out the letters…..funny, it seems to have failed to mail out all of them! Nothing like not knowing a thing when your engine dies on the highway despite adequate maintenance!
Contrary to what Quantumleap has implied, I have not been the one responsible for the media reports to date. I wasn’t even the first one approached by the media on this topic. A very angry Maggie Alemany was approached by a reporter and asked about her Sienna…..which had been sitting for almost one year with no engine in it! Many other angry Toyota owners have contacted the media. I, too, would like Quantumleap to cite the proof that he has showing that my e-mails prompted the media efforts. It simply is a FALSE statement.
I agree with Quantumleap that there have been misrepresentations………about the QUALITY of the vehicles in question. There has been plenty of hyperbole and innuendo/inference about the so-called invincible Toyota quality….especially in the media. The fact is that many Toyota owners have not found this to be their experience at all. How often do these owners get to speak up and what venue do they have? With actions similar to those of Quantumleap, some hope to intimidate posters away from discussions about on-going, major Toyota vehicle problems.
Far from what Quantumleap claims, my postings have been matter-of-fact and based on owner experience. I do not use personal attacks and intimidation in my own defense; I don’t have to because the truth speaks for itself. Apparently, there are some who are angered by the truth and determined to undermine the growing network of Toyota owners. The Complaint Station for Toyota was almost duped by a person like Quantumleap who was spreading lies about my efforts. Luckily, the site did its own research. The plan to have me banned from the site backfired on the person instigating the lies. The same seems to have happened to “George Jones” here. It isn’t a new ploy by the ones who wish to SILENCE the Toyota owner consumer advocates……when one tactic is foiled, another is tried…..in a never-ending cycle.
Freedom of speech is a GREAT thing; it isn’t something that is a given, though, with the likes of the “George Joneses” out there. The hope is that the readers are confused, that the truth is hidden, that the whistleblowers are SILENCED! What “George Jones” and other like-minded impersonators don’t quite understand is that the vehicle defect is secondary in this matter. The restriction of speech is primary….and the fact that the tactics being used by some are unconscionable if not downright ILLEGAL! This is WRONG and I don’t plan to sit back and allow it to continue. Exposure of the vehicle defect(s) is important; exposure of the unethical practices of some corporate entities is critical. Let’s hope for Toyota’s sake that there can be no connections made to it and the actions of those who have sought to restrict the vehicle owners’ freedom of speech!
Many of the Toyota owners and I have analyzed the posts made at Cartrackers.com “Forums” (under Toyota) site. It isn’t hard to connect the impersonators there….they have used pseudonyms with remarkably similar dialogue (same misspellings, repeated phrases, etc.). In fact, what “George Jones” has done here is quite common there. All this has been done in an effort to distract from the discussion about what causes Toyota engine oil sludge and how Toyota is responding to it. The site shut down mysteriously at about the same time that The Complaint Station for Toyota shut down. TCS has been trying to figure out who has sabotaged the site.
Anyway…back to the chronology of this whole matter. I posted an owner survey on Edmund’s Town Hall. I was allowed to post for 15 days. I was told that my discussions of Toyota engine oil sludge would be diverted to the “Maintenance & Repair” discussion (general one for all makes). Over 5,000 posts dealing with Toyota engine sludge resulted despite the fact that I was not allowed to post further on the topic. I never once used inappropriate language nor did I attack anyone; those who chose to attack me were allowed to continue posting on the site. In the meantime, I was “chased” all over the web by the “cyberharasser” who said I was spreading a HOAX. Then, Toyota addressed the HOAX by coming out with its “Engine Oil Gelation” program for Toyota owners. Hmmmm…..what’s wrong with this picture?
Now, three years after the first program was announced, I still hear from Toyota owners who say they received NO LETTER and that Toyota is acting like it has never heard of an engine oil sludge problem. Engines are failing….some are catching fire….others are throwing rods through the engine…..ultimately, the engines are seizing. Toyota continues to blame the owners; it is finding all sorts of loopholes for not honoring its sludge program (it doesn’t even tell owners unless they already know about it!).
As for follow up media reports…..let them come forward! I think Toyota will be the last to want such a report! Why…the Center for Auto Safety’s biggest effort this year deals with engine oil sludge…..that “hoax” of a problem that surfaced long before I came on the scene! I welcome media sources to contact the signers of my petition….those who have been left holding the bag for this whole fiasco! Perhaps Quantumleap could encourage the media to report the latest…….which I hope would entail interviewing a number of Toyota vehicle owners who have been recently affected by this problem!
Hyperbole? Yes, there has been hyperbole about the quality of the vehicles which have been plagued by sludge! Some have not made it up to the 36,000 mile initial warranty period! Toyota claims that these vehicles have not been properly maintained and that owners are waiting 20,000+ miles to change the oil; the vehicle owners have proof otherwise!
I’d be happy to discuss this matter from an engineering and scientific point of view, as long as Quantumleap allows it to remain civil and fact-based.
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Toyota Owner Consumer Advocate
“Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution”
Strangely, Quantumleap’s last comment seems to have gotten stuck in my spam filter. I liberated it mostly as an illustration:
Me: Please post your evidence.
QL: Obviously, you are not a seeker of truth…
Hah!
It certainly appears there are now two individuals here who are very much in love with the sound of their own voices.
Mr Licquia choses to ignore evidence of Ms Blake’s hyperbole appearing in total abundence on the internet, and instead asks to see “evidence” posted here.
The answer to your request, Mr Licquia is very simple.
There ain’t enough room in your blog to do do what you insist on. It would literally consume all available memory space in your computer.
On the other hand, Ms Blake herself has chosen to provide “evidence” herself, by virtue of yet another of her long winded (but empty) soliloqies about all that’s wrong with the world.
Right, QL. There’s so much evidence, it would blow my server away, but you can’t post even some of it here.
People with abundant evidence for their position don’t steal people’s identities and manufacture false evidence, as your pal George has done. Links, please, or get lost.
Quantumleap….I am waiting for your abundant evidence, too. Further, I challenge you to come forward and debate the matter PUBLICLY. I’ll be happy to sit with you face-to-face with a media representative. I don’t have anything to hide. When would you like to do so? 😉
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
In all honesty, your allegiance to a person calling herself Charlene Blake is odd, considering what this person has done over a considerable number of years under the guise of “Consumer Activist.”
The following is a quote from another website, directed to her which speaks volumes about her tactics:
“And a good Sunday Morning to all….
I came across this thread while reading through this morning’s input. A Charlene Blake denial of her recent spamming efforts struck me as particularly ironic. Actually, I choked, then chuckled, when I read Charlene Blake’s vehement denial of doing what she continually does.
Internet “spam” is Charlene blake’s trademark, is it not? It’s common knowledge!
Charlene Blake claims Vandoo was “lying” by commenting on her preference for “repetitive posting”, aka “Spam.”. Charlene, given the major segment of the local community has repeatedly commented about you doing just that, I must be lying, Mandrake must be lying, Never Again must be lying, Bierbelli must be lying, Toyotatech must be lying, John must be lying, Grant C.must be lying………My goodness Charlene, looks like the whole world has conspired to lie about your well documented activities!
Seriously Charlene, how can you deny doing what you do, time after time, after time…..!
Not only do you deny past spamming activities, but just today, you did it again.
Let’s not forget that the post I just referenced was one of 15 consecutive posts this morning…by you…in a 30 minute time span….or is that a 30 minute time SPAM?
Charlene Blake, if you hope to gain any credibility as a self professed activist, you had better consider doing less “denying” of activities you have a reputation for.
Accusing others of “lying”, when you yourself are certainly not above reproach, isn’t going to help your cause much.
I certainly wouldn’t advise putting much faith in anything you say. Anyone who denies what is very plainly on record…here and all around the internet…isn’t to be trusted on any subject.
Another related subject…about your petition… with all those “signatures” you proudly boast of Charlene…I believe it can only be trusted as much as its author…which, in light of your reputation, doesn’t amount to very much…especially when it’s a well known and documented fact that the thing is an open invitation for fakery.
Here’s another fact that probably doesn’t come as a surprise to you…try using it as a legal defense of your pathetic little crusade…your faked signatures and 75 cents just might get you a cup of coffee…that’s about all.
Lastly, to any of you rational viewers who want to know why I interjected this piece…my apologies…but this woman is somethin’ else, isn’t she?
Charlene Blake has a unique ability to make sleazy politicians look like angels!”
Jeff, this woman is a well known troublemaker. She singlehandedly orchestrated that entire sludge issue by spamming it 24/7 all over the net for years until it took on a life of its own. It is not uncommon to see dozens of consecutive posts by her in a great many websites, where she launches into her lengthy and repetitive harangues about her grievances with not just Toyota but other automakers as well, including a number of consumer product manufacturers with whom she takes issue with.
If you seek proof of her crusades, just do a googlesearch and you’ll soon see how she does this.
I honestly believe those “intruders” you question are the ones telling the truth, and you have dealt with them unfairly.
If you seek proof of her crusades, just do a googlesearch and you’ll soon see how she does this.
I have done Google searches. What am I supposed to see? Lots of evidence of her getting kicked off message boards for impersonating other people and slandering them? Oh, that’s right, she’s the one having that done to her.
Your quote is interesting–or would be, if I had any reason to believe you didn’t just make it up. Where did it come from? Do you have a link? Heck, just cut-n-paste the stuff in your Location bar when you’re at the site into my comment box if you can’t do real links, like this.
That link, by the way, is that Google search you guys keep telling me to do. If you filter out the obvious shared identity pages, you basically get my blog, relatively calm stuff from Charlene (like this and this), and some non-car-related stuff, like her interest in a local bike trail and her husband’s problems with identity theft. Nothing I can see that isn’t just good, healthy free speech in public. Certainly nothing like impersonating someone to slander them.
See? That’s what posting evidence looks like. Do you think you can do that?
Jeff: Hmm. Still no links. Care to try again?
Jeff: Making stuff up again, are we? Links! Give me links!
Jeff, yet another tidbit.
I went to a website you referenced, namely “Toyota Owners Unite For Resolution” and had a look around.
It appears this site is authored byBlake–if not, she is by far the most prolific contributor to it with hundreds of appearances.
Your Blog comments are one of the latest appearances in the What’s New category. The following cryptic essay appears on Sept 16, 2005:
Jeff: And, surprise surprise, no link; just a bunch of text we’re supposed to take at face value. Not to mention reading comprehension problems; Ms. Blake is clearly identified as the author of the petition, as the bottom of this page shows. I’m going to assume that that was the link that should have been provided; you’re free, of course, to post the real link if I’m wrong.
Jeff, here’s another excerpt found at that Cartrackers site which talks to the petition you seem to place much credibility in:
Jeff: Hmm. Still no link. How many times have I asked for links now? Just in case you missed the last several times I asked for them, I would be satisfied if you just cut and pasted URLs (the stuff starting with “http:” in the Location bar) into the posting box.
It’s also worth noting what Onetimer’s quoted message above (the one I left) accuses Ms. Blake of: “spamming”. If true, that’s a pretty serious charge.
Later, though, the charge changes. Now it’s “repetitive posting”, which is equated to “spam”. Ever posted twice on the same subject? Then you’re a spammer too, according to this alleged post, no better than the Viagra hawkers and Nigerian scammers.
The implication is that Charlene posts has posted rather more than twice about this subject; the number cited is 15 per day. The number might even be correct, for all I know. It also is completely in line with the behavior of many others who believe in something very strongly, and is certainly not “spam”.
Note also the language: “pathetic little crusade”, “fakery”, “make[s] sleazy politicians look like angels”. Some of that is emotive, and of no value except to the true believer. The rest amounts to more very strong accusations, none of which have the benefit of proof. Hmmm… where have we seen that problem before? Oh, yeah, I remember: here in this very forum!
For example, remember this claim from Onetimer?
She singlehandedly orchestrated that entire sludge issue by spamming it 24/7 all over the net for years until it took on a life of its own.
“Single-handedly”? Not so:
Toyota says it has received about 3,400 sludge-related complaints since 1999… But there are about 100 entries in the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s Consumer Complaints database from Toyota and Lexus owners who say they they were not reimbursed. Many complainants say they could prove with receipts that they followed proper maintenance procedures, but were told the sludge problem was caused by abuse and wouldn’t be covered.
So much for good ol’ Onetimer, who still, as of this writing, can’t provide us with links to anything that supports even a single claim.
What’s really funny is that the original issue is over for me. I didn’t buy a Toyota based on lots of sources of customer support problems, one of which was Charlene Blake. I’ve even given Toyota some credit in making what is otherwise a superb vehicle according to both reviews and customer testimony. Had the rabid pro-Toyota forces just shut their mouths, or posted a few polite criticisms of Blake and let it alone, this whole thing would have been done and over, and I’d just be a happy Honda driver.
But no. Blake is evil, and must be stopped, and anyone saying anything good about her must be attacked. Even if the attack comes to impersonation and slander. And so we go, on and on, damaging Toyota’s reputation further and further by pounding the drum:
Toyota did their customers wrong, and here’s the proof. No, they didn’t, and that girl’s a liar and her mommy dresses her funny! No, she’s highlighting customers who were treated badly by Toyota, and demanding justice. She’s a spammer and a liar! She just is! Nyah! Really? Can you prove it? You’re a dirty hateful booger too, because you don’t believe me! No, really, Toyota did these things. Did not! Yes, they did; see here? Nyah! That’s just more Blake-lies! She tricked them into saying that! And she admitted it! No, you pretended to be her and said it; you’re the liar here. Why are you talking about that? This is all about how ugly and bad Blake is! How dare you talk about anything else in your own blog besides how ugly and evil she is?
I’ll give you guys a few more chances. Links to evidence. Now. Or go away.
Jeff, you clearly do your homework! I thank you for that. “Onetimeonly” seems to be the mouthpiece for Toyota…..but, if so, a fairly negative one. Personal attacks are not unusual, especially those directed at me. After all, I am the one (according to “Onetimeonly” and my impersonator at least) who supposedly created this whole sludge HOAX…….created it all on my own, right?!? Wow…..then, why did Toyota come out to admit that there was a problem? A bit far-fetched, don’t you think? Can one consumer convince a corporation to come out with a SLUDGE POLICY for NO reason?!? Actually, Toyota’s SLUDGE POLICY was in place long before I came on the scene…..ask the Toyota Financial Services about this when you make an inquiry about the vehicles THEY sold at AUCTION! The link to that TFS policy was PULLED less than 72 hours after I exposed it in my postings!! Soooooo…..I guess I singlehandedly created the issue even BEFORE I stumbled on the problem on the internet! I must be clairvoyant! 😉
Pandora’s box was opened long ago…..and the Toyota proponents (the ones using illegal and offensive tactics to counter the PR, that is) are trying to stuff the big, dark secret back into the box!! It isn’t going to work. There is an age old moral and ethical lesson in all this…..don’t try to cover up things and then LIE about it when you get CAUGHT! Have the automakers gained any new insights about consumers and what they will or will not do to achieve justice? I really don’t know. What I DO know, though, is that some Toyota proponents (Toyota affiliated?!?) are willing to put a lot of energy into FIGHTING the consumer’s right to freedom of speech instead of TELLING THE TRUTH and FIXING THE PROBLEM!! If that is not crystal clear by now, I don’t know what is! Obviously, the bottom line is more important than the customer!
I’ve gotten four new sludge story e-mails in the last few days……some owners are still seeking attorneys. One owner’s wife experienced a horrific fire in the engine….with two small children present in the vehicle. What was the diagnosis? SLUDGE! Owners are contacting me with stories of sludge in vehicle models NOT YET INCLUDED in the current sludge program (you know…the one covering the HOAX that I singlehandedly created in my spare time!) BUT….HEY….no problem at Toyota…..these vehicles are invincible….and “Onetimeonly” will attest to this fact! It’s those pesky owners who don’t properly maintain their vehicles……..THEY are the reason for all the Toyota problems!!
Let’s do a quick recap…..I start posting and someone immediately claims I am spreading a HOAX. Later, thousands of owners come forward at Edmund’s Town Hall to discuss this HOAX. Gee……even the government has a stack of sludge complaints (both NHTSA and the EPA)! A well-known mechanic cites (Larry Perry in Orlando, Florida) the increased cylinder head temperatures in the Toyota. TSF already had a SLUDGE POLICY in place! Finally, Toyota comes out with first the SPA (Special Adjustment Policy) and then, after customer dissent, the CSP (Customer Support Program) to address the SLUDGE HOAX!! In the meantime, I am chased all over cyberspace by the same attackers (misspell the same words, etc.). I WAIT one year AFTER the CSP, and then I start a PETITION (see your Constitutional freedom of speech rights!)……lo and behold, over 1,000 signatures have amassed. The typical refrain……TOYOTA WON’T HONOR MY WARRANTY!!
I admit….after all this, I am a bit cynical. WHY DOESN’T THE CORPORATION DO THE RIGHT THING? I just don’t get it! Is is all about money? You do the research and you be the judge. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. NO ONE is entitled to slander, libel, and other vicious, illegal means of getting back at someone EXPOSING THE TRUTH!
Jeff, just so you know…..and you probably have seen it in your research….the cyber-harassers have compared my consumer efforts to the actions of Osama Bin Laden! Interesting analogy given the harassment and hate images coming from “Onetimeonly” and the impersonator. I seek consumer networking and positive action in the name of justice……nothing more.
My guess is that “Onetimeonly” is angry that good old fashion consumer grassroots actions can work! I welcome any insights others may have…
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Oh….and one more thing….regarding the issue of “spam.” First of all, I have posted a post in more than one location on the internet. I have NEVER sent spam in the form of e-mail or the form of nuisance postings. I have posted with the single goal of informing otherwise uninformed Toyota owners and would-be owners. OTOH, the cyber-harassers, have spammed the vicious attacking posts about me over and over again to fill up discussion boards….to confuse and to distract the readers. Again, the cyber-harassers have done what they claim that I do. First, they fake signatures on my petition and then clalim that I faked the signatures. They also have sent false complaints about me to various posting sites in order to get me kicked off the sites. It worked at Edmund’s Town Hall, but it failed to work at The Complaint Station for Toyota or Cartrackers.com’s “Toyota” forum. The tactics being used to STOP me from speaking up are underhanded at best and criminal at worst. Toyota’s gained a stellar reputation over time……I guess it plans to keep it that way no matter what the consumers have to say!! Suggestion to Toyota: Build the vehicle that you USED to build to KEEP your reputation……FIX the sludgemobiles and compensate the owners fairly! AND….let your proponents know that it is not OK to lambast consumer advocates who speak the truth!
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Jeff, you were given specific references and direct quotes from quite clearly identified sites which contained all those issues I referred to in my several posts, above.
You only had to visit those sites and peruse them even superficially to see exactly what I referred to in my posts. Everything I mentioned, all the quotes, the spamming and repetitive posting, and all the rhetorical silliness is there in plain view. All it would have taken would have been for you to indulge in a few clicks of your mouse to see it for yourself. Instead, you chose to deny existence of any of the info I suggested.
You also chose todelete my comments, sarcastically deride them as fiction, among other less complimentary remarks, for one reason or another.
You say you are looking for links. Short of leading you by the hand and taking you directly to the thousands of examples that are out there for everyone but you to see, I don’t know what else I can do to change your opinion.
Frankly, your opinion is now of very little concern to me. I tried to intercede and shed some illumination on your earlier comments to others, where you jumped all over other posters for saying things about the Blake personna.
From my now informed viewpoint, having done a little unbiased research on Blake’s activities, it’s quite clear you were wrong in your rush to judgement about those comments, and your continued denial and ignorance on the matter isn’t worthy of further effort to show you otherwise.
Obviously, you are the type interested only in looking at one side–yours–of an issue, and whose thoughts and opinions are so self serving that there’s no room left for anyone else’s.
Link No. 1
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/toyotatacoma.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=930&LastModified=0&ID_Topic=
Link No. 2
http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/Toyota/2.html
Link No. 3
http://www.cartrackers.com/Forums/live/Toyota/684.html
Link No. 4
http://groups.msn.com/ToyotaOwnersUniteforResolution/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=835&LastModified=4675505185893011275
Link No. 5
http://new.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?TMC2003&301
Judged from the number of links I posted (as requested by the illustrious Jeff L.), and which have now been deleted, I would suggest that Mr. Licquia has decided to bury the truth rather than suffer the embarrassment of admitting it!!
How sweet it is!!
For those people wondering what in the world Onetimer is talking about in the immediately preceding post: it looks like his posts were caught in the spam filter, due to his habit of posting multiple times in a row in a very short time period, and he assumed I was censoring his posts again.
Had he posted all his links in a single comment, it’s likely his post would have gotten through, and he wouldn’t have the embarassment of accusing me of deliberately deleting his posts when I didn’t.
But no problem. It was easy to reclassify them. And I will give him credit: he has, in fact, posted links…
…unlike Quantumleap (who was also stuck in my spam filter), who thinks that, for some reason, I didn’t try to find the supposed rants he cut-n-pasted. How does he think I found all those defenses of Ms. Blake I linked to before?
But give Onetimer credit for making Quantumleap look stupid:
You say you are looking for links. Short of leading you by the hand and taking you directly to the thousands of examples that are out there for everyone but you to see, I don’t know what else I can do to change your opinion.
Well, Quantumleap, just look immediately below your post for some examples.
I’ll read the links later (busy Saturday, doncha know) and comment.
Oh, and one more thing, Quantumleap: remind me, again, who has the credibility problem here?
I have no idea who quantumleap is and what issue you have with that person that causes you to confuse my posts with those by him (or her?). You attribute my comments to this person—that’s bizarre, and quite frankly, a little uncomfortable.
You asked me repeatedly (and very sarcastically) for links, rather than cutpastes of the stuff I unearthed showing Blake in true form.
I provided a sampling of links as requested.
It would appear there are hundreds of similar examples, judging from what I’ve seen.
Why you couldn’t (or won’t) find any of this is a big unanswered question IMO.
Nevertheless, as I said earlier, at this stage it’s patently clear you are of closed mind on the matter, and you’re tripping over either acrimony or ego (perhaps a little of each), therefor it’s a waste of time and effort to contribute further to this discussion.
Suffice it to say,I’ve learned, and I’m quite satisfied this Blake personna isn’t the poor, persecuted/ harrassed/ ruthlessly attacked Martyr you believe her to be, and which she portrays in her rambling monologs, above, to that effect.
As far as I’m concerned, Blake is a clever, cunning, and highly unethical manipulator who worked very hard to hit the headlines with that sludge campaign, but fell far short of the objective. This is due primarily to a serious lack of integrity in her methodology, and the credibility just wasn’t there.
On the contrary, Blakes constant presence seems to have become less and less credible and more and more incredible as one explores her efforts further.
Good day to you Jeff, and if nothing else, perhaps this interlude has opened your mind just a little.
To J.
Jeff: Deleted for abuse, of me this time. As I mentioned above: if you don’t like my rules, get your own blog.
So I’ve now checked out the links Onetimer posted, and I have one question: what, exactly, was he trying to prove by them?
Three of the five links are just to posts by Ms. Blake. One of those (the second) has a full thread, with some people attacking Ms. Blake, and some defending her; nothing out of the ordinary about that. Of the remaining two links, the fifth link is just a link to the petition site.
The third link is the only one that makes an attempt to back up their assertions about Ms. Blake and spam. It’s basically a back-and-forth, similar to what we’ve seen here. The anti-Blake crowd makes assertions, congratulates each other, and says cute things about Ms. Blake when she provides evidence for her claims or tries to dispute theirs. As with these two threads on my site, no links are made to alleged spam instances.
Normally, I’d just call this a “he-said-she-said” deal, and see if there’s any independent evidence to corroborate either side. (Short answer: Blake comes off way better in this regard. Long answer here.) But, y’know, the original incident that started all this was caused by someone who impersonated Ms. Blake to slander her reputation. I suppose it would be too much to ask Ms. Blake’s detractors to comment on that, however prolific they might be when focusing on her sins.
Oh, and this, from Onetimer:
You attribute my comments to this person—that’s bizarre, and quite frankly, a little uncomfortable.
When did I do that?
Not that he’ll reply; remember, “it’s a waste of time to contribute to this discussion”.
I echo your remarks Mr. Licquia: “it’s a waste of time to contribute to this discussionâ€.
BTW, I wasn’t trying to abuse you or anyone else. I am sorry you took my post that way. I was attempting to show how foolish it was to continue the way you were. Hopeyou enjoy your Mazda.
Onetimeonly, I think you are a bit confused. You said, “As far as I’m concerned, Blake is a clever, cunning, and highly unethical manipulator who worked very hard to hit the headlines with that sludge campaign, but fell far short of the objective.” I’d like to clarify for you…..the media contacted ME. I didn’t have to go knocking on doors as the issue of TOYOTA ENGINE OIL SLUDGE was well-known and widespread by the time I came along! If you want to talk “unethical,” you might consider the corporate side of things, OK?
You also say, “It appears this site is authored byBlake–if not, she is by far the most prolific contributor to it with hundreds of appearances,” above. You are referencing the “Toyota Owners Unite for Resolution” web site at MSN Communities. I hate to disappoint you, but I did NOT create the site and I am not moderating it either. Another Toyota owner with major vehicle problems is the one who created and who maintains the site. I helped coin the NAME of the site, though, because I thought the prudent thing to do would be to NETWORK and UNITE for a RESOLUTION in the matter. Do you take offense at this action by a collective group of Toyota owners? IF so, why? AND……is there a reason for the use of hyperbole when you reference me? After all, I don’t know you and as far as I know, you don’t know me. You say you feel uncomfortable at what Mr. Liquia is saying (even when he didn’t say it). Now….empathize with me….I feel very uncomfortable being JUDGED by someone who won’t come out of the shadows and who won’t acknowledge the truth about Toyota and ENGINE OIL SLUDGE!
You go on to say, “In all honesty, your allegiance to a person calling herself Charlene Blake is odd, considering what this person has done over a considerable number of years under the guise of “Consumer Activist.” Interesting, very interesting! What exactly have I done? Well…..other than to spend many hours of my personal time helping fellow Toyota owners find the TRUTH about engine oil sludge and Toyota’s response to it? How about the directions I have given to consumers to fill out online reports at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Center for Auto Safety? I’ve made fliers and given to Toyota owners. I’ve encouraged other Toyota owners to link further with Toyota owners in order to take collective action. WOW! Is this what you mean when you say “considering……?” Onetimeonly, there is no guise here…..I am the real McCoy….the bonafide CONSUMER ADVOCATE. And….I’m not ashamed of it! If you are attempting to turn auto consumers against me, you have a funny way of doing it! You do understand that one of the top consumer complaints has to do with VEHICLE REPAIRS, don’t you?
Isn’t this anonymous defamation a bit much? May I say that I believe you have something to hide…..or to keep hidden?
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
To Quantumleap……if you are bold enough to call me a “liar” on the internet, you will need to back it up with links. Show us all exactly what you are saying is a lie. Do it carefully, because your form of defamation is a serious one. I find the name-calling going on by the anonymous posters repulsive and intolerable. I doubt I am alone!
Charlene Blake
cblake@erols.com
Charlene Blake may or may not be what her detractors suggest.
I don’t know much about her situation or what she is accused of
To me her comments about it sound like what we hear every day from politicians. Not quite lies, but not quite truth either. Somewhere in between perhaps.
I still agree this discussion is a waste of time. Jeff, your Blog is a good one. Why even bother with this silliness.
Why even bother with this silliness.
Read the original post again. You must have missed something.
Really Jeff: “Why even bother with this silliness?”
On the contrary, you missed the point entirely friend!!
Really Jeff: “Why even bother with this silliness?”
On the contrary friend, you missed the point entirely!!
Uh, dude, this is my blog. The “point” is whatever I decide it to be. And you missed it.
Hey, you know what? I’m an idiot. Yeah, I see it now. It does really suck to have cyberstalkers, and to be slandered like in that other post.
Sorry, Charlene, I had you pegged all wrong. That was a good thing you did, helping people with their oil sludge problems.
Anyone want a used Toyota, real cheap?
Jeff: I wonder if “callsemhowiseesem” will get the point of this post now.
I must agree with icallsem. This discussion has gone from the ridiculous to the sublime.
Jeff, your views on what’s right or wrong with others are yours, and yours alone. I respect that. Don’t expect everyone to agree with you though, and definitely, don’t just arbitrarily shove your views down the throats of others by holding sway over what goes into your blog. That’s just egostrokin’, and power trippin’, for lack of a better description.
That being said, I see what you mean about the deception of Jones. What he did wasn’t right.
But if you really dig into some of the stunts your heroine Blake has been part of, I think you’ll agree she’s not above doing the same. I did dig, and I think she’s equally culpable, if not more so.
Next time you two connect, ask her how many usernames she’s used all those years she’s held Toyota’s neck in a noose. (CBlake2, Autoresearcher, ProOwner, Whozitz,…………….the list is lengthy, if not quite creative. Is that not deception?
Ask how many car forums she’s been terminated from for flagrant abuses of their rules. Soliciting class action, repetitive posts to the point of blocking others, locking up the entire site…….again lengthy and creative tactics.
Also ask why she posted literally thousands of times in every large, small,and remote site available where even mention of the word Toyota occurred. The site owners often called it Spam–does that definition vary with the individual?
I even found a series of posts by Blake in Amazon.com where she took issue with their rating of some lowly Academic who had the audacity to write about the method of production Toyota uses in its operations–she called the guy down and urged folks to boycott the guy’s book, among other things!! Some might suggest that’s a little wierd.
Frankly, I could care less about Toyota or any other Automaker for that matter. I drive what I like. I don’t favor one over the other.
What I do care-a lot- about is people like Blake–Politicians, Celebrities, Media Sensationalists, and the like, who claim innocence while feeding the world a line of self serving crap. Doing the wrong things–even if they’re for the right reasons, is still wrong.
Is misleading another form of lie? Is deception the same? What about overwhelming literally hundreds of websites with repetitive messages? (No wonder the media came knocking!!–Interesting, they left just as quickly as they came!!)
I make no bones about feeling the way I do. If you or Blake take exception to what I write, so be it. I respect your feelings but I don’t agree with them. I base my opinion on what I read by Blake in a huge number of sites around the web. It certainly appears there are a great many others who also feel as I do.
You ask for links—if you were as astute as you suggest you are, links aren’t necessary. It’s all there at your fingertips.
Final comment: Icallsem may be the wisest of all.
That being said, I see what you mean about the deception of Jones. What he did wasn’t right.
It’s nice that you’re finally getting around to discussing the point, even if you can’t keep your Blake-obsession from kicking in.
You say you don’t like politicians who feed you a load of crap. Well, I’ve got one sentence now where you lament a deliberate lie designed to slander someone, and pages and pages of invective against someone for merely complaining too loudly for your taste, if I read you correctly. So forgive me if I’m less than impressed with the nobility of your cause.
And, as I’ve stated many times before, it’s my blog. You comment here at my pleasure. As I’ve demonstrated before, if you aren’t polite and don’t treat people (especially me) with respect, you get the treatment you deserve. If you don’t like it, don’t come here. Go get your own blog, where you can call the shots, and be as rude and obsessive as you want (short of the stalking laws).
Fair to say Jeff, if you expect respect, show the same in return. There wasn’t any disrespect in Q’s post. Not this one either. You seem to have an unconventional view of what respect is. A cheap shot is a cheap shot, Dude!
This back-and-forth is really pissing me off.
I was not the one who was rude first. I was not the one who lied to slander someone. If someone comes in and spray-paints over your walls, they have no grounds to call “disrespect” when you yell at them.
At some point, it makes sense to stop the spray-painting. I’ve reached that point. Comments are closed on this post.